Conversation: Hosono Hitomi and Yamaguchi Mio on Radical Clay

(audience chattering)

Good afternoon, everybody, welcome. Welcome to this extraordinary event, a sold out program we're so proud to be hosting, and we're so eager to thank you for being here and to say welcome. We're really thrilled.

So my name is James Rondeau. I have the great privilege of serving as the president and Eloise W. Martin director of our great museum. And I'm so happy to be a part of today to say hello to welcome you.

Today's conversation, of course, centers on our extraordinary exhibition, Radical Clay: Contemporary Women Artists from Japan. At the outset, it is also my privilege to welcome two extraordinary artists who have traveled from London, and Japan, I believe, respectively, to be with us today. Hitomi Hosono and Mio Yamaguchi, thank you for making the journey, thank you for being a part of this conversation, and welcome.

So today it's a truly special way to celebrate Radical Clay. It's on view through June 3 in the galleries in our Roger and Pamela Weston Wing, galleries, Janice, 108?

[Janice] 108 and 109.

108 and 109, thank you. And Radical Clay celebrates 36 contemporary ceramic artists, all women, who are producing some of the most ambitious, important, and unconventional clay anywhere on the planet today. I'm also very pleased to welcome Mr. Joe Earle.

I know a lot about Mr. Joe Earle, but we just met a second ago. He's the editor of the beautiful and important exhibition catalog that accompanies the show, and he will join my colleague, Dr. Janice Katz, today in conversation. I also want to extend my immense gratitude to our friends, our collectors, supporters, Carol and Jeffrey Horvitz, who are here with us today.

Welcome to Carol, welcome to Jeffrey, thank you. All 40 pieces in this exhibition come from Carol's extraordinary collection. This is in so many ways, of course, a partnership, but this is Carol's vision to support these artists and to partner with, I think, the best museums in the world.

So Carol, you've had the goal of bringing this work to global audiences for a long time, and you've done it. So thank you. (audience applauds) More on that soon.

But I also want to just pause before we get to the true content of this afternoon. Today's program is so importantly supported by the Carol Given Winston Fund. Another Carol was a member of our museum family for almost 40 years.

And the fund that carries her name was established to inspire those who share Carol's love of art, of learning, and of this institution, especially appropriate to the opportunity of what we'll learn from the artists today I'm also super happy and grateful to welcome one of Carol's sons, I hope he's here, Bert Winston. Bert, are you here? Welcome and thank you, Bert. (audience applauds) So many of us here knew your mother, and loved your mother, and it's so extraordinary for us to have the chance to honor her, but also to say thank you directly.

So, thank you. And lastly, today's conversation is presented in partnership with our extraordinary Society for Contemporary Art. Our collections and our exhibitions span geographies and cultures ranging from the ancient past to today.

So we're honored always to collaborate with the Society for Contemporary Art, and always underscore that from the ancient world to today, that our museum is a place that centers artists and centers our institution as a place of gathering. So with that, I would like to turn the podium over to my great friend, Patty Sternberg, who is the president of the Society of Contemporary Art. And thank you, Patty, and thank you to the Society, thank you all of you, thanks for being here.

And turn it over to Patty, and then we'll get the program on.

[Patty] Thank you. Thank you. (audience applauds)

Good afternoon, I am Patty Sternberg, president of the Society for Contemporary Art, a nonprofit organization supporting the Art Institute of Chicago's contemporary art initiatives, acquisitions, and collections for 84 years. Today we are excited to partner with the Art Institute to co-present this panel conversation as part of the exhibition, Radical Clay: Contemporary Women Artists from Japan. Before delving into today's program, let me highlight some upcoming SCA events.

On April 24th, Brooklyn-based, artist, writer, and educator, Steffani Jemison, will deliver an artist talk here in Fullerton Hall, free to the public and made possible by SCA long-term supporters, Stephan Pratt and Sarai Hoffman. Following the lecture, a ticketed dinner with the artists for SCA members will be hosted at Summer House Santa Monica. On May 4th, artist John Knight, will unveil his outdoor installation on the Bluhm Family Terrace, followed by a discussion in Fullerton Hall.

After the discussion, SCA members are invited to enjoy a complimentary walkthrough and reception on the Terrace. For more information on the SCA and all of our events, please visit scaaic.edu. Our programs are critical in fulfilling our mission and the goals that we share with the Art Institute.

Without further delay, I would like to invite Roger L. Weston Associate Curator of Japanese Art, Janice Katz, to introduce our special panelists. Thank you all for being here. (audience applauds)

Hello, everyone, good afternoon. Thank you, Patty. I would like to share my gratitude to the Society of Contemporary Art for co-presenting today's program in support of our shared mission to highlight contemporary artists across the globe for Chicago audiences.

My name is Janice Katz, I'm the curator of the Radical Clay Exhibition, and it has been such a pleasure along with my colleagues to help bring Radical Clay to all of you in Chicago. And I join James in thanking Carol and Jeffrey Horvitz for their vision and their generosity in sharing their works with us. I am thrilled today that we get to hear from two of the artists themselves about their extraordinary ceramic sculptures.

I'd like to invite the panelists to come on stage, take their seats. So on stage with me we'll have the artists, as James said, Hitomi Hosono and Mio Yamaguchi. (audience applauds) Thank you for that warm welcome, both them traveled a great distance to be with us today.

Their distinctive sculptures are some of the most remarked upon works in Radical Clay, Hosono-san's intricate nature-inspired white porcelain creation, and Yamaguchi-san's tower of barnacles or scales which graces the cover of the catalog. And also with me is catalog editor Joe Earle, former head of the Asian Art Department at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, and former director of the Japan Society Gallery in New York. (audience applauds) He has published extensively on contemporary ceramics in Japan, so very, very pleased that he was part of the project.

And I'd like to introduce our translator, Jun Mizukawa, who joins us today. (audience applauds) And extend my sincere gratitude for her participation. So with that, I turn it over to you, Joe, to start our discussion.

Well, thank you very much, Janice. And let me start by thanking James and you and the Institute and Carol and Jeffrey, for, among other things, at last making it possible for me to come here and actually see the exhibition. 'Cause having been involved with it for a couple of years, and I know it's been on for three months, it's great to actually see the installation.

And congratulations on a fabulous installation job, it looks wonderful. And if any of you haven't seen it yet, make sure you go right after this and take it in. Look, it's really wonderful.

So, turning to our artists, distinguished artist friends, I'd like to ask a few questions. I'm going to start by talking to my fellow Londoner, Hosono Hitomi. It turns out that her workshop in London is only half a mile or so away from the place where I have lived for more than 40 years.

With that irrelevance out the way, I'd like to ask Hosono-san to answer the first of our questions, which is, how did you create the work in the exhibition and indeed works like it? And what's the concept behind your work? (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese)

Thank you very much for giving me this great opportunity to come visit and showcase my work. And I'm originally from Japan, but I'm currently working in London, England. When I was working on the piece for the exhibit, I was exploring themes of plants and landscapes that were familiar to me from my time in Japan.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) The title of the piece is Pine Tree. I designed it based on my recollection of the pine trees in my home garden back in Gifu-prefecture, and the ones that I used to see when I frequent it, the Kenrokuen Garden in Ishikawa-prefecture. I've long wanted to make this piece because I liked the pine trees with twisted trunk and gnarly branches that looked like they were dancing.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) To explain my creative process in simple terms, the first step involves shaping a mold based on the motif of a trunk or branches of a pine tree. Next, I prepare a negative mold. By pressing the porcelain in the negative mold, I create a number of sprig leaves.

And once I carve finer details into each sprig with tools that are modified, but the tools initially, originally intended to be used by the dentist, I create openwork by making spaces between branches. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I drew inspiration for this process from ranma, an openwork screen above the sliding partition doors inside the Japanese home. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) Once the springs are prepared, I have fixed them to a wheel-thrown vessel, beginning with the inside of the vessel.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) Afterwards, I affix the sprigs on the outside of the vessel. After letting the piece sit and dry very slowly over the course of approximately a year, I finished the piece by firing it at the high temperature of 1280 degrees Celsius, approximately 2,336 degrees Fahrenheit.

So I have another question, sorry, now I have another question for you. How do you plan and visualize for your work? Do you do drawings in advance? (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese)

I do prepare a rough sketch on paper, but it might be more accurate to say that I visualize a piece by working with clay. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) Sketching plant motifs on paper is limiting as it only affords a singular dimension or perspective, and it is often difficult to render a drawn image of a plant into a clay mold for a sprig. I tend to rely more on my memories of seeing the plants with my own eyes and feeling the plants with my own hands as I work directly with clay to prepare a sprig mold.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I believe that my original design emerges through my direct handling of clay. This process allows me to develop a fuller image of a plant in my mind. I'm not interested in making a simulacrum of a plant.

Instead, I let my hands lead me as I weave my own creative elements into making a sprig model.

Now I've had the privilege of seeing different works of yours from different stages of your career. And I wonder if you could tell us something about the way your work's evolved, and what techniques or shapes you're likely to incorporate in the future. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese)

My current style draws inspiration from a wide range of things. In Japan, I study skills and knowledge fundamental to the ceramic art, as well as sculptural styles of contemporary ceramic art. In Denmark and England, I was influenced by European ceramic art, architectural styles, antique furniture designs, and paintings.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) Since 2008, while I was at the Royal College of Art in London, strongly inspired by Wedgwood, I began working on pieces that utilized the sprig mold technique. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) Since then, every time I create a new piece, my sprig mold technique undergoes a minor transformation in order to realize an idea or a concept. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) For instance, with Pine Tree, the piece that is currently on exhibit, I wanted to express a pine tree that's full of vitality.

Borrowing from ranma design of the Japanese household, I have devised a way to produce a semblance of an openwork designed by carving spaces between leaves. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) In my work, beauty in the natural world has long been a theme, and I imagine this will remain so for the time being. I believe that there is infinite beauty in the natural world, and it is an everlasting journey for me.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) Given how vast a reservoir of motifs, shapes, and themes exists within the natural world, it will be nearly impossible for me to work all of them into my pottery during my lifetime. With that said, I do hope to give each shape through clay one at a time.

Well, I think we all hope that process goes on for a very long time. Now, Hosono-san is someone whose work I was a little bit familiar with, Yamaguchi-san came to me as a complete surprise encountering her work in the Horvitz collection. And then for me as a sort of first time experience, I began to find a little bit more about her through the medium of Instagram.

That's never happened to me before with a living artist. (audience members laugh) So I'd like to ask by starting how you created the work in the exhibition, and what the concept was behind it? (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese)

I'm also very happy to be here today. I began by forming an urn-shaped base by hand and affixing thinly rolled-out clay pieces one by one. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) In my mind, the base vessel presented itself as my naked and adorned self, a spirit, and the layers of thinly rolled-out clay pieces that enveloped the base were meant adorn, to hide, and to patch up in order to protect my spirit.

(Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) I compare it often to makeup. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) Bare face. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) So I imagine the process to be just layering the thinly rolled out pieces one by one as if to sort of put on the makeup on my bare face.

(Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) I have a special attachment to the work currently on display here as it marks a turning point for me. With this piece for the first time, I was able to love my naked unadorned self a little and to feel comfortable leaving the base texture exposed. And I used to leave the urn-shaped more covered, I would layer and layer and layer.

But this time, I felt comfortable leaving the sort of the wrinkles and the cracks and the base more.

Now, I think I know what the answer is to the next question, but it's an important one so I'm going to ask it anyway. I wonder whether you do any drawings or preparatory sketches before you get to work. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese)

When working on the piece, I neither sketch nor draw at all. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) It never occurred to me either. (audience laughs) (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) Even if I do sketch or draw, it would never go as planned because it's the clay, and the clay is a living thing, so I feel like I'm playing with clay.

(Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) The clay is so interesting and fun as a material because as I make it, maybe the size expands or the shape changes along the way, and I find that fascinating, the whole process.

Looking forward, and we hope we can look forward for a long time 'cause you are the youngest artist in the whole exhibition, I wonder if you can tell us how your work has evolved, and what techniques or shapes you are likely to incorporate in the future, and whether maybe there'll be a change of scale going forward? (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese)

Ever since I began working in ceramic art during my college years, my work has always involved the layering of thinly rolled-out clay pieces that you see today. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) So the process feels like I'm weaving my myriad daily emotions into clay like a diary, I'm putting it on one by one, or layering it one by one. And then at time, it is also calming as if I'm hand-copying Buddhist sutras.

(Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) Looking ahead, each time I finish my work, my desire to see denser textures, to go deeper into my spirit and stack clay more finely and boldly grows, so I imagine I'll be exploring my current style for a foreseeable future. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) So sometimes I wonder and I question myself, should I be doing this all the, because I've always been doing the way I've been doing it, should I continue to do it this way? And then sometimes I say, oh, this is it again? But I do see myself doing that for a while. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) So the whole process of handling the clay and working with the clay is comforting, I find the whole process comforting for me.

And sometimes I throw my negative emotions at the clay and then I work with the clay as I work my emotions through. And I know some people like to change and other people prefer not to change. And I've had my dilemmas of whether I should change, I shouldn't change my style, but I do find the repetition comforting, and then I find that a form of change, although it is repetitive or repetition.

So I've stopped wanting to change in that way.

Well, thank you very much. We all look forward to seeing how these complicated considerations roll out in the years to come. Now, I'd like to turn it over to my colleague, Janice Katz, who's going to ask some more general questions not so closely associated with individual works.

Thank you so much. I wanna take the opportunity of having you both with us here in Chicago to ask some questions that don't have a direct connection with the works on view, but about your approach to the works of art and your career in general. And a question that, again, I think I know the answer to, but it's very interesting to hear anyway, is first for Yamaguchi-san.

Do you find that traditional Japanese ceramics have any relevance or importance for you in terms of techniques or glazes or styles? (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese)

I have not given much thought to this question. (audience laughs) (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) Because I've not always done ceramic art. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) I encountered ceramic art in my college years.

(Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) Until then, I've always drawn. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) So all my life I've always liked drawing and I thought I would make my life out of drawing so I wanted to go to an art university. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) So at college I discovered or I learned that ceramic art isn't just about teacups and using a wheel, but it's a lot more liberating, it's more free, and that's when I realized, oh, this is interesting.

(Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) Although, because I was born in Aichi-prefecture, and from an early age, I've always been accustomed to the Mino-ware and the Seto-ware of Gifu-prefecture. Perhaps because they were so familiar to me, I may have unconsciously acquired an affinity for the glaze and texture of the clay of the Mino region.

Thank you, thank you so much. Certainly walking through the exhibition, for many of the artists on view, the connection with traditional ceramics is probably a moot point, if a point at all, but there are some connections. And so for Hosono-san, the same question as to whether traditional ceramics hold any appeal or meaning with your current work? (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese)

I began my career at the potter's wheel club at Tajimi Technical School in Gifu-prefecture, a region for which the Mino-ware is well-known. At the Kanazawa College of Art in Ishikawa-prefecture where Kutani-ware is known for, I majored in ceramics at the department of craft. For a few years following my college graduation, I also worked as a ceramicist at Kanazawa Utatsuyama Kōgei Kōbō ceramic studio.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I acquired my fundamental ceramic art skills in Japan. Being in a region known for its traditional Japanese ware, I was always strongly aware of the pottery and its regional reputation as my practice has always been influenced by it very strongly, and at the same time responding to it by rebelling against it. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) Given this background, no matter where I went, something in me always found the traditional pottery fascinating.

Thank you so much for such a thoughtful answer. And I would like to turn it back to Yamaguchi-san, and ask her, which other ceramic artist does she admire, and whose work does she see almost as a precedent or an influence on her own work? (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese)

The most influential ceramist for me is Harumi Nakashima, who was my college mentor. And he had an enormous impact on me. If it were not for him, I may never have started working with ceramics and I may never have arrived here today.

(Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) He was such a free spirit. And then he's the one responsible for sort of overturning the biases I may have about Japanese ceramic as teacups. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) So when I was preparing myself for a entrance exam for the art universities, I was going to a cram school for art students and I was very heavily criticized for the kind of work I was producing then.

And after I got into art university, Nakashima, my mentor, when he looked at my piece, he gave me a lot of encouragement and he really liked my piece, and that won me over. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) He was the first one who convinced me that it's okay to steer away from the traditional art, but he's the one who said it's okay to play with the clay and then produce something. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) And because of that, although he was not a ceramic artist, I'm also influenced by the 'Outside Art,' Jean Dubuffet.

(Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese) So things like spider's webs or insects or the caves inside the caves, things that are made but not with an intention of showing to somebody else, I find that to be very beautiful and I find that inspirational.

Thank you. Hosono-san, similarly for you, I think the artist who had the most influence on you would be a name that is known to most of us here. Please explain to us.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese)

The ceramist I'm most influenced by is Josiah Wedgwood. As you know, he was an English ceramic artist, who more than 260 years ago founded Wedgwood, an English fine-china and porcelain manufacturer. I marvel at his passion and dedication to develop his famous jasperware.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) You can probably trace my current creative techniques back to his sprig-mold techniques used on jasperware. I was inspired by it during my time at the Royal College of Art. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I'm also in awe of the ceramists who are no longer here because they made Jōmon earthenware, especially those who made Jōmon flame-style pottery.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I'm amazed not only at the superiority of their work despite their primitive living conditions, but also at their sophisticated artistry that continues to affect people even after a few millennia have passed. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I admire these Jōmon-era artists, who through their earthenware, continue to pose important questions for us like what it means for humans to touch clay and form expression through pottery, as well as the significance of our forms of expression. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I'm also intrigued by the theory that suggests that these earthenware may have been produced by women.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) With the advent of such convenient devices and methods as artificial intelligence that let us produce art easily, it is important to remember the joy we feel while working directly with clay and getting dirty, and then the reason for wanting to make time to create pottery, things we can learn from Jōmon earthenware.

Thank you, thank you so much. And we're getting close to the end of the program, so I think we probably just have time for one more question for each of the artists, probably one more quick question for each of them. So I'll start with Hosono-san, and how important is it for your work to gain recognition outside of Japan? Because here in the US, your work has been shown also in Europe, and I wonder if being able to have your work shown outside of Japan is especially meaningful for you.

(Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese)

It's encouraging to have my work widely recognized by people overseas, and it helps me build confidence to carry on my work. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I'm also delighted to see that people from different cultural linguistics and religious backgrounds can connect through my work. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I have been exploring the theme of plant beauty through my work in England as I travel to various international fairs and exhibitions to display my work.

Whenever I have a chance to speak to people overseas about my work, I'm reminded of how much everyone loves plants and wishes for a life surrounded by them. (Hitomi Hosono speaks Japanese) I'm happy to know that my work can elicit such a universally shared appreciation for plants.

Thank you so much. Last question for Yamaguchi-san.

I think yes, we only have time for one more, but I wanted to ask you as the youngest artist in the exhibition, how you think your work builds on or deviates from that of past ceramic artists, or indeed other artists of your generation who are in the exhibition. (Mio Yamaguchi speaks Japanese)

Works by Tanaka Tomomi, Hattori Makiko, Mori Aya, and Kawaura Saki are also on the display at this exhibit, and they all attended my alma mater before me. And I'm immensely affected by their handling of clay because I believe clay reflects the inner personality of who they are. And I'm also inspired by the freedom of their creative expressions and how their shapes seem to capture who they are.

(audience applauds)

Thank you, thank you all so much. Thank you to the artists for explaining, answering questions that are not always easy to think about and articulate, we really appreciate that. And the thoughtful questions posed by my panelists, Joe Earle, and the wonderful translation by Jun Mizukawa.

And now we invite you to continue the conversation with us in the galleries. The artists and the collectors, Jeffrey Horvitz will be available for questions in the gallery. Do we have a moment to invite Jeffrey up here so you can recognize him so you know who to direct some questions to when we're in the galleries? We are absolutely thrilled by how popular the exhibition has been with our audience.

So if the gallery gets crowded or Jeffrey himself gets crowded, please come back again in a bit. It will be worth your patience, I promise. Now, just a word from Jeffrey.

Everyone, just look up behind you, look down below you. This is the largest turnout I have ever seen for Japanese ceramics, and this is half the people who signed up. The room couldn't hold anymore.

(audience applauding) This is the catalog. 3,000 copies were printed, they were all sold out within less than two weeks. This is due to all of you.

(audience applauds) But don't despair, another thousand, I don't know how many thousand are being printed right now as the second issuance. We've never seen catalog sell out this fast for what would seem to be a niche exhibition. So really you support the museum, you support the artist.

And how do you do this? By coming, by seeing, by enjoying. All of you participate in this great exercise. We have more coming in October from the vast French collection.

Will be what was really a show of Neoclassicism, about 125 French drawings from 1770 to 1830, probably about 20 to 40 paintings still being decided, no sculpture because most are terracotta and they're very delicate. I've lived in five cities. I was born in Shaker Heights outside of Cleveland, lived in Philadelphia, lived in Los Angeles where I was an art dealer in 20th century and then contemporary art, moved to Southeast Florida, and eventually up to Boston.

It's important to understand this because Chicago is perhaps our prime partner, no, it is our prime partner in the French collection, in the Japanese collection, and being planned out in the Chinese cinnabar lacquer collection. And I think I can truly say with the vast number of people who've been involved, thank you to all of them, but on behalf of the artists, thank you. Because without your support, there would be no point to this, no point at all.

The art needs to be seen, it needs to be appreciated, it needs to be enjoyed. So I'll end very quickly, rephrasing the most famous part of President Kennedy's speech in Berlin, Ich bin ein Chicagoan. (audience laughs) (audience applauds)